This is a continuation of yesterday’s blog, where Laura interviews the law clerks about their experience, and advice to aspiring law students.
Laura: Ok, since I know upcoming law students will be dying to know this- describe how you met me or had the opportunity for an interview here at our law firm?
JESSICA: I’ve got an interesting story for you! When I was a first year at Loyola my friend work at the career services office. He told me I should apply for this job with a criminal defense attorney. I looked at the job description, checked out her website and thought to myself, this is exactly where I want to be! I emailed Laura my resume and at the time I did not have the experience she was looking for (a lowly 1L who just moved to Chicago from Colorado and who had no experience with Illinois criminal law!) But instead of just turning me down, she sent me a wonderful email message offering to speak with me. I jumped at the opportunity. Ever since Laura has been my invaluable mentor. After finishing several jobs I had already lined up, at one of our mentor meetings, Laura offered me a position and I immediately accepted!
KEVIN: Word of mouth. My cousin knows Laura through the State’s Attorney’s Office and she told me that Laura was looking for a Clerk. I called, sent my resume in, and got the appointment. Word of mouth is a great way to get a job because it serves as a double screening mechanism. The recommender vouches for both the employee and the employer, so both sides are (ideally)benefitted more than if you go in blind. This is why networking is so important. Of course, this is much easier said by someone who received a referral through a relative. I got lucky, and there is no instruction manual for that.
TIM: I had already graduated law school when I first learned about Laura’s law office, but had not yet taken the bar exam. Graduating without a job was scary, and I was getting to the point where I was going to press pause on the criminal law dream just so that I could have a job. Luckily, I came across a job posting that Laura had published to Loyola’s job search database in which she was in search of a part-time Law Clerk. I remember reading the synopsis of the job, doing a little bit of online research, and knowing immediately that I would end up working for Laura. Although I wanted a full-time Attorney position, not a part-time Law Clerk position, I was going to be happy doing anything in criminal law. So, I sent in my application, got a call from Laura, and scheduled an interview. After an interview that was atypical of any interview I had ever had (though typical, I would learn, of a Laura Morask interview), I was given the job. My first assignment for Laura was to work on a Motion for one of the biggest media cases of the year. I jumped in head first.
Laura: Was the interview what you expected? How so, and if not, what about it was not? Did you feel prepared? What was the most important thing you think you learned from me during the interview process?
JESSICA: My experience was not the traditional interview experience. As I mentioned above, Laura was my mentor so we already had an established relationship. Still, during our mentor meetings she would grill me on why I wanted to work for a criminal defense firm. Asking me question during our mentor meetings that would come up in an interview. Our mentor meetings are invaluable to me in that they have allowed me to hone my interviewing skills and prepare for what to expect. I think that when going into an interview you need to be ready for anything. Be ready to ask all the questions, be prepared to have just a general conversation, be prepared to be drilled by the interviewer. Also, research the person you are interviewing with! Know what they are about, what interests they have, what accomplishments they have made in their career. And, most importantly, express to the interviewer why you will fit in their firm, show them that you bring to the table exactly what they are looking for.
KEVIN: It wasn’t what I was expecting, but I also had more than one interview with Laura. When I first called about the job, I thought I would just get an appointment, but I ended up speaking to Laura for about an hour on the phone. That wasn’t a formal interview, and we spent most of the conversation talking about people we knew(Laura and I both live in Park Ridge). This is another tip that I think might help people with networking. Playing the six degrees of separation game can help you find common ground with people. Once you find out where someone is from, where they worked, etc., you can often find at least one person in common that you both know. Anyways, after we spoke over the phone, we scheduled an in person interview. I think the second interview was more formal, but it was made less stressful by getting to know her in the first. Most of the in person interview centered around topics that I didn’t have any familiarity with, like DNA evidence, and ballistics. Being ignorant of these topics, I ended up asking most of the questions, and Laura became the interviewee. Not knowing a whole lot about a topic is something new law school graduates should get used to, and it is better to ask questions from those who do know, than to pretend you are an expert. Laura has an extensive background in ballistics and DNA, so it was very helpful to pick her brain.
TIM: The interview was not at all what I expected. Laura is so dedicated to serving her clients that she often answers the phone when it rings as opposed to screening all calls through her secretary. Bringing my experience as a legal assistant in an office where I was in charge of answering the phone every time it rang so as to shield the attorney from unwanted and unnecessary calls, I was immediately surprised when Laura answered a phone call from a client during our interview. I stepped out of the office while she took the call so as to avoid any privacy issues, and that gave me an opportunity to talk to her secretary and personal assistant for a while. Seeing how busy Laura was got me excited at the prospect of working for her, and meeting her staff gave me a feeling of calm that I took with me into the remainder of the interview. The interview lasted another three hours. We discussed everything from my background, jobs, and interests, to Laura’s background, involvement with her community, and her law practice. Having done some research before going into my interview, I was prepared to answer and ask questions, although I was not prepared to answer “What animal would you be and why?” (see more on that below). Ultimately, the interview taught me how important it is to come to an interview prepared, but not so prepared that you have canned answers to every question. In my experience, an interview should be a conversation instead of a question-and-answer session. In a setting like our office, where we are in close quarters all day every day, it is essential to let your personality out during the interview; if we can’t get along at the interview, there is no chance we will get along through the day-to-day life of a busy criminal defense attorney.
Laura: What was your biggest struggle when coming to work here? What type of assignment did you struggle the most with? What were/are your favorite things to work on?
JESSICA: My biggest struggle was writing like a practicing lawyer. I’ve been taught to write like a law student, and unfortunately, the two styles can be very different. When I came to work with Laura I had just finished appellate advocacy and moot court so I was in the habit of conducting intense research and explaining the law in thorough detail. However, when writing a motion to suppress statements, you don’t need to reinvent the wheel. My absolute favor thing I did at LauraLaw this summer was prepping for a jury trial. Even though I didn’t get to see the case go to court, it was the most fulfilling experience. It was challenging, something I had never done before, and so rewarding. I also love writing the blog! Staying on top of current events is so important, and writing the blog stretches my legal brain by applying current events to black letter law. It is an educational experience not only for our valued readers, but for me as well!
KEVIN: Any kind of writing assignment is both my biggest struggle and favorite thing to work on. Writing is a creative process that requires a lot of focus, which puts you in a position of both dread and excitement. One thing that makes it a challenge here is that I write different kinds of material. Writing for a blog, for instance, is something I have never done, and it is hard to get used to the tone. Another thing, as Tim talks about below, is that the style of writing you learn in classes has to be dramatically altered to fit criminal law. Motions are expected to be short, far shorter than anything we wrote in school. This can be hard when you have a lot to say.
TIM: I had two primary struggles when I first came to work for Laura. My first struggle was that my entire work background in law school was in federal court. I interned with a federal judge, did federal §1983 internships with the City of Chicago and the Illinois Attorney General, and interned with US Attorney’s office. While each one of those jobs helped prepare me for this job, none of them dealt directly with criminal law in state court. Therefore, learning all of the Judges, the customs, and the courtroom practices of state court was a big adjustment. As anyone who has practiced in both state and federal court will tell you, they are worlds apart. My second major struggle was toning down the “law student” in my writing, while turning up the “attorney.” Law school is great, in part, because it allows students a somewhat consequence-free forum to “wax poetic” about the law. Unfortunately, however, we were taught a certain style of writing (through legal writing class and law journals, etc.) that isn’t conducive to day-to-day practice. Sometimes a Motion to Quash Arrest and Suppress Evidence can be two pages. The Judge usually will not want to read a treatise on the history of the Fourth Amendment followed by case illustrations of each case that has been decided in the past five years that bears some resemblance to the case at issue. Instead, the Judge usually wants to hear (a) what you want, (b) under what authority are you asking for it, and, (c) why you should get what you want. Going from the law school way of writing to the practical way of writing was and is a process.
Laura: Since one of my favorite former law clerks in the State’s Attorney’s office loved to ask this question when we interviewed prospective law clerks, “What animal would you be and why?” Also tell us with brutal honesty please, did you think I was crazy when I asked you this during your interview?
(Don’t worry, folks, there is a method to this madness! I now do ask this question just because it is a great ice breaker, and tells you quite a bit about your interviewee!)
JESSICA: I can’t remember if I was ever asked this question! But here we go, if I was an animal I would be a rabbit. Rabbits are independent, energetic, and cute and fuzzy. They, like me, are always observing what’s going on around them. I think this is a great question. In the law sometimes you need to be creative, and this question challenges the interviewee to put their guard down and learn something new about himself. Questions like this can provide lots and lots of insight into a person!
KEVIN: Emperor Penguin. They are adorably uncoordinated on their feet, and they look like they are wearing suits. Like a lot of people, I love the documentary “March of the Penguins.” For those of you who have never seen the movie, please do so. It is narrated by Morgan Freeman, and follows the entire population of Emperor Penguins through one mating season in Antarctica. The penguins must march, as the title suggests, across thousands of miles of snowy Antarctica to and from the same breeding ground each year. Both male and female penguins are very loyal to their mates, and they both protect their unhatched eggs through a brutally cold winter. Since seeing the movie, I have wanted to visit Antarctica to visit them in their natural habitat, but seeing them on Animal Planet will do for now. I didn’t think the question was crazy, but I was unprepared for it. Penguin just popped out of my mouth, and I am happy with my answer. I would love to know what my answer is supposed to say about me.
TIM: I did think it was crazy when Laura asked me what animal I would be. Luckily, I spent a great deal of time as a young (obviously weird) child thinking about being a cheetah. I used to close my eyes and pretend that I could switch places with a cheetah: I would be running through the Sahara chasing gazelles and he would be sitting at my desk learning about how to write a “q” in cursive. I always admired how cheetahs are built for such high speed in such sweltering heat. Maybe it was because I was always one of the slowest guys out on the basketball court, I’m not entirely sure, but there is definitely something about a cheetah that I have always admired.
